Colin Powell’s Interview With Rustavi 2 TV

Interview conducted by Akaki Gogichaishvili

January 25, 2004

Source: U.S. Department of State

QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, strategically Georgia is first of all attractive to superior powers like the United States due to its geopolitical position but less so with unresolved conflicts in Abkhazia and South Ossetia. Does the U.S. government intend to assist Georgia in solving these problems?

SECRETARY POWELL: I think it is an issue not only for the United States government, but for the international community. And the OSCE is playing a role in this, and the UN is playing a role in this. And I’m pleased that, so far in the transition, All of the parties seem to understand that we need to come together now and help the new leadership of Georgia deal with reform, economic reform, social reform, eliminating corruption from the society. And as we move forward with the new government, I hope that we will find ways to resolve these outstanding issues with respect to Abkhazia, South Ossetia.

QUESTION: All these organizations together with the U.S. government?

SECRETARY POWELL: We will work with the Georgian government on it, but it’s not just the U.S. government, of course. We want to play a helpful role in the international community, as we have already, I think, with the OSCE. And, we will be talking to Russia about these matters as well. And, so I hope we will be able to find ways forward with all these dispute areas.

QUESTION: What should the Georgian government do to facilitate further increase of the U.S. military aids to Georgia? Both in terms of training, equipment, with the final goal of becoming a member of NATO?

SECRETARY POWELL: Well the aid that we have been providing to Georgia in recent months has been the train and equip program.

QUESTION: Sir, the specific purpose?

SECRETARY POWELL: To train four plus battalions of Georgian troops to deal with the terrorist threat in Pankisi Gorge. That was a threat that was directed at Russia, so clearly the American presence here was not for the purpose of doing anything else but helping Georgia deal with the terrorist threat that was affecting its relationship with Russia.

The train and equip program is coming to an end. And now we will have normal relations with Georgia on military matters- just as we have with all counties around the world- through our embassy presence and our attaché presence.

We hope that Georgia will put itself in the path of political, economic, and military reform so that if it chooses to apply to NATO, it will start to make progress towards the standards that will be required for membership in NATO. But, it does not follow immediately that this requires some sort of major U.S. military presence. That is not our intention.

QUESTION: But, can Georgia count on U.S. assistance in that regard, becoming moving to the NATO standard?

SECRETARY POWELL: We have worked with all of the NATO aspirant nations over the years – the new ones that have been added. We have worked with them to help the paradigm for membership in NATO. And, it’s not just a matter for the U.S. It’s a matter for all NATO nations. And there’s a very clear glide path that is given the nations who are interested in membership to NATO as to what would be expected of them and the standards they have to meet and what they will be required to do.

QUESTION: The U.S. government has recently expressed commitments to financially help Russia to withdraw military bases from Georgia. How strong and big is this commitment?

SECRETARY POWELL: we have indicated that we’d be willing to help with some of the costs associated with moving back – and we have contributed some money to that effort already – and we would like to see a definite plan from the Russian federation as to when they plan to leave and what time schedule and we can talk about how we might assist them. Some of the numbers that have been suggested in the name of hundreds of millions of dollars. That’s not a reasonable number for us to be able to consider.

QUESTION: Is there ongoing negotiation on this regard?

SECRETARY POWELL: Not at the moment, no.

QUESTION: You may know that our new president, Saakashvili, studied his career with a scholarship funded by your department

SECRETARY POWELL: Yes.

QUESTION: And, given the [inaudible] latest developments in our country, how would you rate the extent of the lessons he earned in your studies and most significantly, implemented in our country?

SECRETARY POWELL: I’m very pleased he did receive education in the United States as a result of programs that the State Department has. So many of your new ministers have been part of this program of student exchange and educational assistance. And I’m pleased they are now bringing back what they learned in the United States, not to simply apply it, but to adapt it to Georgia. And make it fit with Georgian culture, Georgian history, Georgian traditions, and move Georgia via the Georgia model into a democratic form of government –clean government, good government.

To the extent that we’ve help prepare new leaders for Georgia, I’m very happy and satisfied. And it’s for that reason that we seek to expand such programs, and I’m constantly pointing out examples like Mr. Saakashivli to our Congress and say ‘See what we get, see what the people get from this kind of expenditure. This is a worthy use of American taxpayer dollars: to train future leaders to bring their country into the democratic column of nations.’

QUESTION: And this is going to continue?

SECRETARY POWELL: It most certainly will continue.

QUESTION: With the new favorable government now in Georgia, will the United States maintain intolerance towards corruption and violation of human rights in this country?

SECRETARY POWELL: No, no absolutely not. And neither will the new leaders. I just met with the new President and, in our opening conversation, the first thing he spoke about was the end of corruption. Corruption drains the lifeblood out of a democracy. Why should people trust their government if the government leaders are stealing from the people through corruption? And so, you cannot have a society that does not collect taxes fairly. You cannot have a society that has smuggling. Things are just coming in without being accounted for and taxed. And you can’t have a democratic form of government that the people have confidence in if they believe that they are not treated fairly.

So it must have the rule of law. You must respect human rights. You must crack down on corruption. And, these are strong views that I hold and my country holds, and frankly my Congress expects me to convey these views to the nations that we are providing aid to. And what was so reassuring about my meetings today with the new leaders is that they all understand that this is something they have to deal with. Not do it to meet some United States requirement, but to do it to meet the expectation of the Georgian people.

QUESTION: Well, media has played a vital role in the recent developments; the way it has developed. Is the U.S. government going to continue assistance to the local media to fulfill its watchdog activities?

SECRETARY POWELL: We will. We don’t provide direct financial assistance to [inaudible] To the extent we can train and help, we certainly are going to continue that kind of assistance. I look forward to talking to media from around the world when they come to the United States to get experience under one of our programs. We have a number of programs that bring members of the media from developing countries, from countries that really do not get [inaudible] fully democratic systems. And, bring them to the United States. We show them what free open media is like. We show them the importance of a free media for democratic process and for a democratic experience. And we hope that they take that training and apply it when they get back home.

QUESTION: And, the last question. Many analysts say that your visit to Tbilisi illustrates drastic increase of interest that the United States generally have in Georgia. In practical terms, what are going to see in this regard?

SECRETARY POWELL: What you will see is strong, continuing strong political commitment to Georgia by the United States- who want to everything we can to help Georgia in this transition period as it puts its democracy on a more solid foundation, as it rebuilds its economy, as it protects human rights, and it ends corruption, puts in place the rule of law. Georgia will have a partner in the United States in all these efforts. We want to work with Georgia on the global war against terrorism. Georgia has been doing a lot in this regard, and that’s very good.

And we want to assure Georgia that we will continue to provide assistance; as much assistance as we can. In this fiscal year it will be 166 million dollars. And we also are anxious to see the new President come and visit President Bush, and earlier today I extended an invitation to the new President, President Saakashivili, to come see President Bush on the 25th of February and President Bust is very much looking forward to that visit.

QUESTION: Thank you very much for this interview. Thank you.

SECRETARY POWELL: You’re welcome.